The Australian Audio Debate Do We Need A Nanny State?

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2011/09/bia_20110922_1810.mp3



I spent about 48 minutes listening to this debate which starts out with every anti-smoker's friend Simon Chapman.

I don't know what depresses me more the fact that this is how I am reduced to spending my New Year's eve or the fact that this debate was even held.

It's really something.

Worth a listen IMO.

Today’s villain was once a holiday hero

Today’s villain was once a holiday hero | OwentonNewsHerald.com:

For a 100 years, maybe 200, my Owen County family relied on growing tobacco for their economic health. Of course, they did not know how unhealthy smoking was for their bodies, but even understanding that as I do now, I am stunned that within a handful of years, six bent barns have come to stand empty.  Fertile fields lie fallow. And the mammoth tobacco auction warehouses that once dominated towns like Carrollton, Cynthiana, and Lexington have become, like dinosaurs, extinct overnight.

Just thought this was interesting.
You hear so little about tobacco farming or the people who grow tobacco anymore..............

Third-hand threats: Nicotine and nitrosamines found in dust in homes of smokers and non-smokers

separationsNOW.com :: Gas Chromatography :: GC, GCxGC, GC-MS and other hyphenated gas-based separations:

More than 60 organo-nitrogen compounds were detected in the chromatograms and were identified from their retention times. The excellent resolution afforded by the combination of the two columns ensured very little overlap with only two compounds, N-nitrosopyrrolidine and N-nitrosomorpholine, quantified together due to their similar retention times.

All 15 target compounds were detected in some of the dust samples. The total average levels of the compounds in dust from smoking homes were about three-fold higher than those from non-smoking homes at 26.3 and 9.6 µg/g, respectively.

Nicotine was the most abundant compound by far in smoking home dust and one of the more abundant in non-smoker dust, where the major compound was N-nitrosodiphenylamine. Other abundant volatile nitrosamines were N-nitrosomethylethylamine and N-nitrosodiethylamine.

Oh good a paper to use against us.
And by us I mean all of us.
And something in my mind which might not be obvious to everyone but perhaps it should be nicotine being the major containment this paper talks about,it's bound to be found in the homes of people who vape (if they use nicotine) as well as people who smoke.
If I were a person who vaped and were a person who held myself up to society as being a non smoker I'd do well to think again because a Cotinine Test and this new testing won't care if you vape or smoke the end result will still be the same.

(Bhutan) revisit the tobacco act - forget majority rights - respect the constitution | From the Readers

kuenselonline revisit the tobacco act - forget majority rights - respect the constitution | From the Readers | » Forums:

The other thing that turns me off is the repeated justification that smoking goes against Buddhism. Firstly, let's not mix religion with politics, even if Buddhism is the state religion. That is one of the important principles of a democracy. Secondly, let's not pick and choose. Tobacco but not doma? (Don't you just find it rich when you hear these admonishments to smokers coming out of the doma-stained/thick-tongued mouths of our Gups?) Tobacco but not meat eating? Tobacco but not alcohol? How about doing a thorough audit on what exactly Lord Buddha said and going the whole hog? I'm saying let's not fiddle with the words of Lord Buddha and apply it across the board as it should be on doma, drugs, alcohol, snuff, hooch, singchang, bangchang, ara, tongba, bhang and the rest of that big happy family. Isn't that what they should do if they really believed in what the Buddha said? If they're just being hypocritical, well then that's another matter as I'm sure some of our meat-devouring, doma-grinding  MPs (and at least one alcoholic among them) will be relieved to agree. (That they're hypocrites, that is.)

The fact is that all the laws in Bhutan are rather amateurishly written and I'm sure would be riddled with loopholes visible to any savvy lawyer from a mile away. So why all this fuss over this law and not others? The answer is simple – how many of the other amateurishly written laws have landed so many people in jail so quickly? The protagonists of this clearly muddled Act got good feedback through a fierce public outcry. Let's hope some lessons in proper legislation have been learned.

Nah….probably not.

A forum post,I'm having a hard time finding much news coverage about the supposed revisiting of the tobacco control law but from this post it isn't looking good. :(

Consumers To Get The Picture On The Dangers of Cigarettes (And Who Knows What Else?)

CHARLEYWORLD: Consumers To Get The Picture On The Dangers of Cigarettes (And Who Knows What Else?) | Hawaii Reporter:

“Marlboros,” I said to the old man behind the counter.

“What kine?” he said. “Da one wit’ da black, seeping lungs or da buggah who stay smoking through da hole in his neck?”

“The ‘Lites’,” I said. “The pack with the dead dude on it.”

The old man checked my ID, which was weird since I’m 84 years old, before forking over the pack of coffin nails appropriately decorated with a photo of some zombie in a coffin complete with coffin nails.

I lit my first cigarette of the day on the sidewalk, shielding it against the rain and sucked in a nice lungful of restorative smoke. Ah. Now all I needed was a cup of java.

I climbed into a taxi, coughing through a dense cloud of muffler exhaust. Man, I thought, they ought to put a picture of a dead guy on the side of cabs. 

A day in the life after the health nazi's get their way.
Entertaining and funny,but also sad .

A Smoker's Lament

A Smoker's Lament: 

 At my fitness center, the back row of stationary bikes had ash trays clamped to the handle bars; you could work off the corpulence and enjoy a good smoke at the same time.
 Then someone cried havoc and unleashed the dogs of war on us smokers.Smoking was even banned at beaches, for Pete's sake.
Beaches?Did you ever hear of a careless smoker accidentally burning down a beach?


I really liked this,so much of it was true.
But it was also sort of humorous,I can't figure out why the author did that,if I had the opportunity to speak out about bans I'd be venting my spleen.

    

           

          

One World Governance – The New Corporate American Business | Centurean2′s Weblog

One World Governance – The New Corporate American Business | Centurean2′s Weblog: "One World Governance – The New Corporate American Business"

Looking for the original.

A Funeral for Tobacco Products

A Funeral for Tobacco Products - YouTube:

Holy hell.

This is in the same state I live in.I'm not surprised.

I am shocked they felt the need to branch out they seem busy enough to me.

Springfield Bar Closing After Smoking Ban 'Cut 80 Percent of Sales'

Springfield Bar Closing After Smoking Ban 'Cut 80 Percent of Sales' - OzarksFirst.com:



Ray Hassen has owned Ray's Lounge for the last 15 years, but this year will be his last.

The bar at 1221 E Saint Louis Street will be closing after the end of the year.

"December 31 is my last night. I'm not going to renew my 2012 license," says Hassen. "We're going to have a big party and hopefully I can get rid of all my beer and liquor and close the door."

He says right after the citywide smoking ban went into effect, his business was cut by 80 percent.

"I felt it immediately, even though I have a patio for the smokers."

Sad.
I am amazed that people still try to deny the economic impacts of smoking bans.

Smoking ban ordinance read Monday » Local News » TheTimesTribune.com, Corbin, KY

Smoking ban ordinance read Monday » Local News » TheTimesTribune.com, Corbin, KY:


John T. Mullins, one of the owners of Corbin Bingo, asked commissioners to exclude bingo parlors from the ban.

Mullins estimated his operation could lose $500,000 raised for charities. In a written statement he handed to officials, he said 25 percent of the bingo hall is designated non-smoking. That area of the building is enclosed in glass and has a smoke removal system.

If the ban were passed, Mullins said it would likely drive customers to other bingo halls and his business could lose so much revenue he might be forced to close.

Kathy Lay, of the Whitley County Health Department, said there is no ventilation system capable of removing all particulate matter from the air that results from smoking. She also said studies have shown smoking bans have no impact on bingo hall revenues.

Bob Hammons, city attorney, said the more exceptions a city puts in a ban the more legal challenges it is likely to face.


Jesus Christ.
I know others have covered this better then I ever could but I can't find the posts right now.
I believe Belinda and Patsy Nurse both did stories on their blog about air filtration,they were great and they explained this more than I do.
I'll dig this up and edit this post later.

Smoking issue spontaneously ignites council meeting

Smoking issue spontaneously ignites council meeting:

The president of Central Wyoming ABATE, Russell Reddick, also spoke out in favor of allowing smoking.

“Some of these places are where this community gathers together, some of these bars are over 100 years old, and the community that’s inside these bars is over 100 years old, some of the people in these bars look like they’re over 100 years old,” Reddick remarked. “I believe it’s a constitutional right to not only gather, our First Amendment right to freedom of association. Well, I believe that freedom of association goes to smokers too. We have a right to gather in a public place, in a public bar, and have that place together and exchange ideas and enjoy each other’s company. If there’s no smoking in some of these bars, that community will be gone.”

Nothing about this article bothered me.

I must be getting soft,because I can only take so much bad news anymore.Too much makes me take time away for my sanity.

An Anti Rant (I wrote something)

I started out writing this post with the intention of talking about the smoking ban in Alexandria Virginia(Alexandria tobacco users are unhappy with new law).

For(the two) people used to reading my crappy blogging style this will more likely than not be a departure,I imagine.
 I will see if I can't manage to keep this sort of thing up but some part of me doubts that I can do it.


When it all began it seemed so reasonable.No smoking on long flights and smokers said "Oh o.k. sure I can understand not inconviencing the non smokers,surely not everyone enjoys the smell of smoke."

The as everyone can see it snowballed. 
And because most smokers are laid back people we just let the anti's take more and more away from us until we had nothing.
And now they want to take everything not just from us, but from other people who had the targets painted on their backs by the healthists.


No one is safe from these loons,no one who drinks or uses sugar or salt or is a child.
I have never seen so many people so willing to trample on the freedoms of a select few,and this is not at all unfamiliar,it's been tried before.


What started this is something I never thought would,an ancient by most thoughts article from the Wall Street Journal.
There is a part of me that imagines that most of us have read this,hell most people 40 or some a bit younger like myself have lived it.
I remember the laws being passed and them forcing us outside to smoke at work,in those days you could still smoke indoors in a separate room away from where anyone else could see you.


Of course I can remember smoking in shopping malls when I was a teenager,but right about the time I turned 10 there was a bit of EPA magical number crunching that made secondhand smoke 
a"real danger"
It wasn't too many years later when the groups lobbied the health departments to ban smoking in bars and restaurants for the health of the workers.
Eventually they won on that with their lies too.


God the idea of writing the history of all of it is beyond my scope so I'm going to focus on what it was like being forced out or my work ten years ago.
It started being ten feet away,then after a year or so twenty.
At that point all smokers were lazy because they were away when they were needed.


After a few more years they told us breaks were only if business needs allowed us to have them and now we had to stand out in the parking lot by our cars or sit in our cars to smoke(oddly at that point i was riding a motorcycle to work) so I found that beyond funny.
(I guess I should day they can't enforce this rule so it's a moot point,people just walk around the corner,away from where people can see them.)


The thing that bothers me most is that there was a point where we were still in society,still a part of it and that changed in the last 30 or more years that I have lived.
The places welcome to me and members of my family have dwindled so much that now we just stay home.
Even if we could afford to go out and eat somewhere or go out dancing or go to a club why would we?
Our club,where we fit is outside of those places,outside where the music plays and outside of where the drinks are being poured.


The ostracism of an entire group of people seems beyond the scope of what society could  accomplish but they accomplished their shunning quite effectively.
And now I see them starting to beat up on the overweight and the drinkers .


Don't we need to band together,all of us?
Smokers,snussers,chewers,cigar smokers,pipe smokers people who use snuff?
And add to that group people who drink,people who like salt and sugar and people who just might not be a perfect size zero or three or five or ten?
Isn't it time to say hell no ?


All any of us really want is to be left alone.
I don't know if we can go back to just being people again but let us have our separate places,our separate lives and live them so we are in the end happy,we will take responsibility for ourselves if you all just go away.

Bill would ban smoking at federal buildings

Bill would ban smoking at federal buildings - The Federal Eye - The Washington Post:

Efforts to ban smoking at federal buildings have a long, complex history (but what federal personnel issue doesn’t?). In 1997, Bill Clinton banned smoking in most federal workplaces with an executive order that permitted federal buildings to establish smoking rooms.

At the end of George W. Bush’s administration, the General Services Administration published a new policy banning smokers from lighting up in the courtyards of federal buildings or within 25 feet of doorways or air ducts. In changing the policy, GSA cited studies that show secondhand smoke is harmful to co-workers or anyone else exposed to it and laws in dozens of states that ban smoking at state government and private office buildings.

Notably, federal union leaders said the regulation might create issues for workers addicted to smoking.

But of course.
No surprise here at all.

Smoking ban may soon spread to houses

Smoking ban may soon spread to houses - Wilmington Civil Rights | Examiner.com:

Yes, you have every right not to smoke in your home, but you have no right to tell someone else they cannot smoke in theirs. Or even on their outdoor terrace. Next will you tell people that if they have visitors in your smoke-free environment that their visitors cannot smoke in the parking lot?

The problem for the anti's in this case is that smoker's own their own condominiums.
And of course it's the usual game played with magic smoke the miraculous substance that defies the laws of physics by floating down power lines and floating through sealed brick walls.

The news is that this has spurred an idea.

I'm conflicted about this,I'm happy that the smokerphobes will get their own group of housing but I'm sad that the smokers are going to be shoved out and isolated even more than they already are.

And of course it will never stop at that,it rarely ever does.

If you've never had the misfortune to watch people addressing either their local boards of health or their local council's about banning smoking outdoors or in parks on beaches or on the town 's sidewalks or in multi-unit homes then you have never seen something as tragic as I have.

I watched this live.

And I have never been so sickened by the lies,misinformation and general propaganda spewed by the anti's.

This is what they are doing to us and how they are doing it.They are using children,making up their own statistics and yelling about being exposed to secondhand smoke outdoors of all places.

I wouldn't normally link to something this dreadful but it should be seen,smokers need to see what they are up against.

I don't believe the tactics change much from one meeting to the next but this is how these insane bans get passed.

This is how rights and freedoms get trampled,this is how we keep loosing ground.

The best part of this meeting was the older lady from the elderly housing complex who got up to speak,what she said about how far things have gone was the only ray of sunshine in this entire charade.

Tid Bits

Secondhand Smoke Ruling May Set Precedent - Greenbelt, MD Patch:

Fisher said the “smoking gun” in the case was when James Repace, the biophysicist hired by the plaintiff found the same level of cancer-causing particles with his monitor in the smoke-free courtroom as he had in Schuman’s living room while Darko Popovic was smoking outside.

“Shouldn’t that create a cause of action for everybody in here?” he asked.

The article is good and interesting reading.
I do think we will see more cases like this one,I can only hope that what I fear isn't the case.

Mental health smoking ban set to be lifted

Ms Morton said the total smoking ban was harming patients and hindering their recovery, as well as endangering staff who had to deal with patients desperate for a cigarette. She said there was widespread support from stakeholders in the mental health area for a lifting of the smoking ban, which she hoped to change by next year.

"I'm hoping (the submission) will be there (before cabinet) before December and I believe it will sail through cabinet and there won't be any obstacles."

Good,about damn time.

S.D.'s revenue from tobacco tax down 9 percent

A third of the remaining money went to the property tax reduction fund, and another third to the education enhancement tobacco fund. The remaining 34 percent is dedicated to the health care tobacco fund.

When the tobacco tax money decreases, those programs feel it. A decline in revenue hits health care and education the hardest because of the way the state law is structured

Two words for that piece  Laffer Curve

Trying To Quit Smoking? Don't Start With Chantix, Say Some Experts - - TIME Healthland

Trying To Quit Smoking? Don't Start With Chantix, Say Some Experts - - TIME Healthland:

"I'm for smoking cessation," he says, a former smoker himself. "But with a benefit so disappointingly low, and adverse effects that are piling up — blackouts, aggression, heart events, suicide and depression — the bad things outweigh the small good effect of the drug. So what we are saying is we should restrict its use."

Restrict it's use?
I can't even imagine they would recommend it's use for anything ever.
I know many people who have tried to quit from chantix/champix and were in worse shape after.I can't fathom why these people still say it can be used.
Oh wait ,yes I can,after all it's just smokers.

Will it be Tobacco-phobia next?

TODAYonline | Voices | Will it be Tobacco-phobia next?:

Banning tobacco will cause a dichotomy of smokers and non-smokers. The non-smoker majority undeniably already has a negative view of smokers, and if the State makes a stand, smokers would be at risk of becoming social deviants, or worse, outcasts.

Whether it is an outright ban, a gradual ban or denying only elective surgery, there would be a creation of "folk devils" or the Singapore version of a witch-hunt anxiety. 

Smokers would be judged because despite laws that protect non-smokers, there is no suggestion to protect smokers from non-smokers' moral, ethical, political or social "gazing".

This is more than a harmless stare. The gaze of an employer toward his or her employees or an institution toward its members involves an element of judgement. Previously, it was racism. Will it be Tobacco-phobia next?

It is heartening to see how our society has modernised and become health conscious. It is disheartening to see the constant attack on smokers and their way of life.

I guess I lack an understanding of the experience of smokers in Singapore.
I'm still confused by what the letter writer is trying to say,some of it I agreed with and some of it is regurgitated anti-smoking propaganda.
No other point of view will make me happy but my own I guess.
*Sigh*

Study identifies safety issues for hospital patients who go outside to smoke

Study identifies safety issues for hospital patients who go outside to smoke - Winnipeg Free Press

Patients often can be seen congregating outside the doors of a hospital even when it's -30 or -40 C, Schultz observed.

"This is somebody who's sick enough to be in the hospital. That's concerning because that means they're off the unit, and they're also exposed to this kind of weather condition," she said, adding that intravenous lines can freeze at low temperatures and need to be restarted.

Some hospitals are in parts of town that are not always particularly safe, she said, and patients build little networks so they can go outside in a group, especially in the evening so they won't be outside alone.

And there is if I'm not mistaken a real reason for patients to band together and take care of each other.
If you go to Smoker's Club you can find pages of stories just like this................
I don't blame patients for not wanting to trust the hospital with their own safety since apparently it's fine if smoker's have none.
What a world.

Goodwin looks to rewrite smoking ordinance Commission candidate proposes four changes

Bowling Green Daily News:

Goodwin has four specific changes he’d make to the smoking ordinance, the first being exempting the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American Legion.

Those groups’ objections to the ordinance have been well-documented.

Secondly, Goodwin would allow for hotels to have 20 percent of rooms designated for smoking.

Goodwin also believes any business with fewer than four employees should be exempt.

Lastly, Goodwin believes all businesses that allow only patrons 21 and older should be exempted.

Mark Bradford said he’d be open to the idea of some type of exemption process for specific businesses.

For Robin Baldwin, she feels as if the people have already spoken.

“The people in the community had their say, and they chose at least three candidates who said, ‘I’m going to vote for a smoking ban,’ ” Baldwin said.

A Nov. 8 victory for Goodwin could go a long way in showing whether the issue of indoor smoking still exists to where it can decide a campaign.

“I’m going to tell you now, I want to address and it and write it right,” Goodwin said.

Hmm
I like this but I think it should go further even than that,allow the owners to decide.
People always vote with their cash.

HB 282 (Dead)

HB 282

(1)  The provisions of this section shall apply to any food establishment that is required to obtain a permit from the State Department of Health under Section 41-3-15(4)(f), that operates primarily in an enclosed facility and that has five (5) or more seats for customers.

     (2)  Any food establishment to which this section applies shall not be allowed to serve food to any person who is obese, based on criteria prescribed by the State Department of Health after consultation with the Mississippi Council on Obesity Prevention and Management established under Section 41-101-1 or its successor.  The State Department of Health shall prepare written materials that describe and explain the criteria for determining whether a person is obese, and shall provide those materials to all food establishments to which this section applies.  A food establishment shall be entitled to rely on the criteria for obesity in those written materials when determining whether or not it is allowed to serve food to any person.

     (3)  The State Department of Health shall monitor the food establishments to which this section applies for compliance with the provisions of this section, and may revoke the permit of any food establishment that repeatedly violates the provisions of this section.

     

I'm glad this one is dead,but before anyone thinks I'm putting this here to be a jerk and dissect ancient history you would need to understand how shocking this read was for me.

I rage against this sort of thing on a regular basis,because it bothers me in so many ways,it shows how demonizing people begins and what it looks like at it's inception.

I wonder what the world would be like if we were all just people again.

The Nanny States of America, Part 3

The Nanny States of America, Part 3:

In Canada, if you walk into a bar, and order a $3.50 beer, the bartender opens that beer for you… ok there is a city tax of 7%, a sin tax of 12%, federal tax of 9%, and goods and services tax of 21%. (Percentage numbers based on taxes in Oakville, ON Canada in 1997). 

Now let’s look at the math, 7+12+9+21=49% tax on that one $3.50 beer, $1.72 in just taxes and that one beer is now $5.22. Now that is if each tax is based the original $3.50. If they can do this on a beer… how long do you think it will be before a simple can of snus or a pack of smokes is carrying 49% tax on them on top of the current outrageous sin, state, federal and local taxes that are on them now? 

In some states this tax can be as high as 90% of the retail cost as it is. Now add to that another 49% to 50% worth of taxes and you are looking at tobacco users footing the bill for a health care system that has already proved failed.  That is if they spend the money where they say and as we have seen in the last article how well they manage the money they say they are using. 

An interesting take from a smokeless tobacco user.

Dwindling number of places where smokers can light up

POINT OF VIEW: Dwindling number of places where smokers can light up - The Sarnia Observer - Ontario, CA:


Some members of the committee also said the outdoor smoking ban may be going a little too far.
Sarnia Coun. Bev MacDougall said smokers are already a highly restricted bunch of folks.
"We can't take away the right to exist gainfully in society," she said.
It's never easy to balance the desire to promote and protect the public health, with the need to maintain and protect the rights of individuals.
But, it's probably easier than being a smoker these days.
As Plympton-Wyoming Mayor Lonny Napper, a smoker, told the committee, it may soon be easier to just pass a law telling them where they're still allowed to light up.

:(
That's not good blogging,but it's the truth.
The more you separate people and the more they are able to see each other as something different the more difficult it becomes to exist in society.
Divide and conquer seems to be the best strategy tobacco control ever thought of.
Harassing and making people feel ashamed,alone and unwanted has done wonders for pushing along the healthist agenda.
Think you are safe because you don't smoke?

Haven't patients suffered enough without this hospital smoking ban?

Ian O'Doherty: Haven't patients suffered enough without this hospital smoking ban? - Ian O'Doherty, Columnists - Independent.ie:

Before he died, my father spent a few years in and out of James's Hospital.

He used to say that the worst thing was the boredom, the endless tedium punctuated only by the ticking of the clock in his ward that used to drive him mad.

A voracious reader, he admitted that there are only so many books you can read in one day and while his body was failing, his mind was, on the whole, still active -- and that's where the ciggie break came in.

He admitted to me on one occasion that going for a smoke was the highlight of his day -- not for the hit of the tobacco but because for him and all the other long-term patients, going for a smoke was a social occasion, a chance to get out of the bed, get out of the ward and have a chat and a fag with some of the others and, to be honest, I could completely see where he was coming from.

Because when my Da and his fellow incumbents met up for a smoke, they were no longer just patients with a numbered bracelet on their wrist, they were men again, individuals in their own right.

Such a satisfying read.
My crappy blogging will never do it justice but it should be read.
The writer touches on such a striking note,this thing we all forget smoker's are people too.
No matter what the anti's say or how they try to spin it,we all of us are people still and deserve some compassion and we deserve to have our dignity intact when we are ill.
Being well isn't just what we or eat or drink or smoke or don't smoke do our mindset has a whole lot to do with it as well.

Ban has no effect on smokers - The Irish Times -

Ban has no effect on smokers - The Irish Times - Wed, Oct 19, 2011:

The smoking ban was introduced in March 2004 by then minister for health Micheál Martin. Its aim was to protect people from second-hand smoke but it had also been hoped that the ban would provide an incentive to help smokers quit.

This has not proven to be the case.

“We really haven’t shifted prevalence of smoking by any appreciable extent beyond what it was prior to the implementation of the ban; we are at about 28 to 30 per cent,” Dr Holohan said.

And of course that isn't the only message that's being spread.

 He also said there was a need to look at the inter-relationship between different lifestyle factors, including tobacco use, alcohol consumption and obesity, and their effects on health.

“People who smoke just don’t smoke, they are also people who are overweight and they are also people who are high consumers of alcohol and we need to understand the interaction of those,” Dr Holohan said.

There was no point in sending out messages about tobacco one day, alcohol the next and obesity on the third day. “We need a much more integrated positive message in relation to health.

“It shouldn’t always be about ‘don’t do this’ and ‘don’t do that’.”

Sounds all well and good,well from their viewpoint in any case. But the thing smokers always told the other people who supported the banning of smoking in public places has come to pass.

They are coming for all of us,it makes me wonder how long before the cacophony of angry voices being raised calling for bans to be repealed won't just be from the smokers.

Because now the people who dislike the overweight and the people who dislike smokers have decided to join forces.

Dr Holohan also raised concerns about the marketing of food and unhealthy products to children.

How long before they join with the greenies and the clean air people.One wonders what sort of focus they would spread with the sort of money and backing that would supply.

That damn slope keeps getting slipperier every single day.

Wales needs 20,000 smokers a year to quit to meet ambitious targets

Wales needs 20,000 smokers a year to quit to meet ambitious targets - Wales News - News - WalesOnline:

WALES needs to persuade 20,000 smokers a year to quit if it is to meet an ambitious target to slash smoking rates.

The Welsh Government wants to cut the number of adult smokers from the current 23% to just 16% by 2020.

But there are concerns about whether Wales’ smoking cessation services can help such numbers tackle their addictions.

The number of adults smoking has fallen only slightly in the last seven years, from 26% in 2004, despite the introduction of the ban on smoking in public places.

This doesn't make sense when you figure in the economic losses from tobacco taxes.
I can't pretend to be well versed enough in this to spout statistics and numbers but every smoker that quits costs the government something.
I'm frankly always surprised that this topic keeps rearing it's ugly head.

I'm not even sure exactly what sort of economic number juggling has shown a positive outcome for governments attempting to stamp out smoking on a huge basis but I wouldn't believe the outcome has changed much from the first time I read this.

"A $1 increase in cigarette excise taxes could affect an
estimated 74,700 to 96,800 jobs"

A nifty little report from the United States own general accounting office came up with that number.
I have tried to figure out what the losses on a worldwide scale would be today but math isn't my strong suit.

Mount Airy News - Museum hosts lecture on tobacco and culture

Mount Airy News - Museum hosts lecture on tobacco and culture:

“Tobacco was the backbone, not just of the economy, but of culture and society,” he remarked.

Yeargin also talked about different types of tobacco and techniques that were developed over the years. He then spoke about the tobacco industry in Surry County and what it still means today. According to Yeargin, there were 21 plants for tobacco production in Surry County in 1893, and that grew to 45 in 1927, which employed 2,875 people here.

An article that didn't upset me for once.
I enjoyed every word. :)

OUDaily.com | OU law student, presidential candidate opposes smoking ban

OUDaily.com | OU law student, presidential candidate opposes smoking ban:

“[Let’s say] you don’t smoke. What happens when the government takes away one of the liberties that you do enjoy?” Harris asked. “Are you going to ask people to stand up for you while you remained silent when others were tyrannized?”Harris said he has been trying to work with the OU chapter of the Young Americans for Liberty organization to fight the ban. Caleb Groves, a member of the OU group, said he shares many of Harris’ values.
Groves, international and area studies junior, said he worked for Harris during his U.S. congressional campaign and has decided to volunteer for him once again now that he is running for president.
“Since we are a brand new organization there hasn’t been much for RJ and me to do, but he is going to be attending our meetings, and he will be the guest speaker for our meeting this Friday,” Groves said.
Spurred by smoking’s legality and big government, Groves said his group is hoping to stage a protest on the South Oval.

I really did like this, although I didn't agree with everything in it.
But for me someone calling the loss of liberty to people's attention is welcome and sorely needed.
I wish more people were like this kid,then maybe this mess we have now wouldn't be such a total cluster.

Should smoking be prohibited in Kirkland parks?

Should smoking be prohibited in Kirkland parks? - Kirkland Reporter:

An online survey will be available through Oct. 28 that gauges public interest in whether the city should enact legislation that would prohibit the use of smoke and smokeless tobacco in city owned and maintained parks, open space, and other public recreation areas.
To take the survey, go to www.kirklandwa.gov/tobaccosurvey.

I think it's odd to put up a survey to ask people what they think about it,that in itself is unusual but  I'm more than a little bit skeptical that the results will be used to truthfully promote the will of the people.

This link shows what the survey looks like
link

I'm more than a little surprised they ask if you are a smoker though,you would think that wouldn't matter.

Flames fanned by smoke ban - Local - Blackpool Gazette

Flames fanned by smoke ban - Local - Blackpool Gazette:

A BAN on smoking outdoors has prompted anger.

Blackpool Council has put signs up outside the Solaris centre on South Promenade to say smoking is prohibited in all areas of the site including the grounds.

Smoking rights campaigner Hamish Howitt has branded the move a step too far and warned people could also be banned from lighting up in other public areas in future.

He said: “The smoking ban has already killed off the pub trade. If it spreads to open spaces it will kill off tourism in a working class place like Blackpool.

“If the council is banning smoking outside, it might as well ban cars and lorries because the damage from traffic fumes is much greater.”

Oh good an outdoor smoking ban.
I don't live in Blackpool obviously but this infuriates me.
If you can't smoke outdoors and you can't smoke indoors then where in the hell can you smoke?
If something is legal then why go to all of this trouble to ostracize and demoralize the smokers?

I think the anti's knew something we didn't.
They knew with all the sureness in the world that if they made us baby killers and made us the bogiemen that society would surely shun us.
If their shameful practice didn't work they made sure their propaganda and junk science surely would.
I assume they thought with enough pressure and enough hatred we would stop and some have (convinced by science that is woefully lacking and painful to read if you have a halfway analytical mind and a halfwits understanding of causation and effect and how one proves such a thing) but many have not.

I find it sad that people didn't know with the success of the anti-smoking brigade that more stuff would be coming down the pike for them.
Welcome to the world where people tax fats to change behavior.
After alcohol ,salt and cars I wonder what's next.

Anti-smokers suffer major setback

Anti-smokers suffer major setback | MALAYA Business Insight News Online:

THE temporary restraining order on the Metropolitan Manila Development Authority’s "no smoking" policy has raised concern not only in the National Capital Region but also in the international community.

The Framework Convention Alliance (FCA) has expressed concern over legal challenges being faced by agencies tasked to adhere to the country’s commitment in the World Health Organization-Framework Convention on Tobacco Control (WHO-FCTC).

Anything that upsets the anti-smokers has to be good.

Fin

And the Debate was Over | Frank Davis:

I'm not even going to link anything here,Frank's posts deserve to be read and thought about.

This sort of thing pisses me off though,I started using an e cigarette because my money was damaging the lives of other smokers,my friends and family and people I never even met.
Every cent I poured into the system contributed to the crushing of a group of people using an entirely legal substance and I couldn't live with the idea of it.
I still can't.
Frank says something very wise when he says that  some vapers are antismokers,I just hope I never become one of them.

Official: Smokers Actually Visit Bars Less Often Now

Official: Smokers Actually Visit Bars Less Often Now - Health News Story - WLWT Cincinnati:

The graph now shows that 40 percent of current smokers who were surveyed say they visit bars less often, while about 7 percent of non-smokers say they go more often.

Republican Sen. Bill Seitz, of Cincinnati, and the ban's opponents have seized on the report, saying it's flawed and its executive summary omitted certain figures.

The Ohio Supreme Court is scheduled to hear oral arguments Oct. 19 in a constitutional challenge to the ban brought by bar and restaurant owners.

Wow now there's a shocking revelation.
(sarcasm implied) 

Council puts the butt out on smoking ban proposal

Council puts the butt out on smoking ban proposal

Deputy mayor Luke Charbonneau was concerned by the presentation as he felt Weppler was using a "sneaky" incremental approach in order to achieve the goal of making smoking illegal everywhere.
"What is the endgame of all this?" he asked. "You came to us a couple of years ago and you asked us to pass a bylaw to ban smoking in all of our playing fields. We didn't do that. We passed the resolution. Now you're back to us a couple years later and you're asking us to ban it on the beaches, and we've got this thing asking the county to ban it in entrances and exits to the municipally-owned areas and on private property.

"It seems apparent to me, given your logic in here, that next you'll be asking us to ban it on all municipally-owned property, followed thereafter by all private property. It seems to me that your goal is to ban smoking. And I'm confused as to why the Health Unit has decided to first come to the municpalities and ask us bit by bit, year over year to gradually increase the area whereby smoking is forbidden, when the obvious goal is to ban smoking. Why wouldn't you go to the province and ask them to ban smoking? It's a provincial election, I'm sure there'd be lots of guys out there willing to listen to you." "

Charbonneau closed by saying he was uncomfortable with the notion of reducing people's rights.
"I think we should be looking at finding ways to enable people to do more things, and I don't think the public wants us to be nickel-and-diming them with more and more bylaw enforcement on their doorstep telling them what they should and shouldn't consume," he said.

Reading that coming from someone in any kind of power is almost surprising.
Gives me a little ray of hope though when people think some things just go way too far.
The bad news and there is always bad news I think is that they or some of them at least think they could support some of it as a policy but not an actual law.

Wonder how that will work.

Tobacco Denormalization and Stigma

Tobacco Denormalization and Stigma « Neuroethics at the Core:

The new CAMH policy appears to be following a recent global political trend called tobacco denormalization. The goal of tobacco denormalization programs is to promote the idea that tobacco use is not a mainstream activity within society. CAMH is but one of many psychiatric facilities world-wide that have implemented denormalization programs. Yet, as a recent Globe and Mail article covering the story noted, since CAMH “is the country’s largest mental-health centre, other institutions will undoubtedly be watching to see how the new policy unfolds.”

Denormalization is an awful evil policy.
Nothing like lying and attempting to shame people out of a behavior simply because you don't like it.
The longer I look at these stories the more I find myself wondering exactly what the difference is between the scientific community and the church.
I find this so frustrating,how can you combat something where people pretend to have the moral high ground?

Delaware County bar owners say business down since smoking ban

Delaware County bar owners say business down since smoking ban | The Star Press | thestarpress.com:


Munson, predicting a scenario where county commissioners would one day tell citizens they couldn't smoke in their own homes, said county officials had "accomplished their mission."
"They've changed some behavior," he said, in a fashion that has been "fairly devastating to tavern owners."
Lawyers M. Edward Krause III, representing the county commissioners, and Don Dunnuck, a county commissioner who as an attorney represents the health board, said Munson had no grounds upon which to ask for the temporary injunction.
"Courts have ruled... there is no fundamental right to smoke," Dunnuck said.


Imagine that?
Business owners banding together to try and stop regulations from killing their businesses and jobs in the community.
I love seeing stuff like this,it's a shame it takes this much regulation to get people to stand up and say no we've had enough.


I wish things weren't the way they are now,because this issue was meant to divide us as human beings from one another and oddly it seems like it has always been this way.
Pipe smokers think they are different from cigar smokers who think they are different from cigarette smokers who think they're different from people who use smokeless tobacco.
It really is mind boggling to me that we never banded together and supported each other,it only makes the worst regulations seem like a worse travesty because maybe if we had the outcome might have been harder to achieve.
Once you separate entire groups of people and start allowing them to see other human beings as being alien and different it is all too easy to disassociate yourselves from them and allow things to happen to them that you would never want to have happen to you.
I have to stop there because the thought seems like it will never happen,but I hope I'm wrong.


I hope in my lifetime I see a huge wave of not smokers or drinkers or fat people but just  a huge wave of people standing up and saying no to things like this so we can stop being separate and start being human beings once again.